Sports Massage
I went to a health farm over the weekend and booked a sports massage. I have had these before and like them for the fact that they are indeed a very firm and viorous massage. I have a (unexplained) back problem and tightness around the groin/pelvis area generally, so I asked the specialist to concentrate on these areas.
She explained that the treatment may be painful, but that I could tell her to lighten up if necessary. The pain was actually excrutiating, and although I knew it didn't have to be, I let her do her stuff because I knew it would help me. I know I have sluggish circulation (both blood and lymph) in my legs and bottom, so wanted the congestion cleared a bit.
She told me I would be sore the next day and maybe bruised and I do now have quite a large area of bruising over my buttocks.
I'm not particularly worried about this, but as a matter of interest, is it really beneficial/necessary to cause this amount of pain a superficial damage in order to loosen the muscles. As a holistic massage therapist I was always trained not to give too deep a massage over any broken or thread veins, but I have quite a lot on my legs and this therapist didn't avoid these areas.
I did feel looser for a while (and certainly very spaced out), but the aches and pains are back (the three hour car journey back didn't help). I know I should have regular treatments, but was wondering if I did have these sort of treatments on a weekly basis, would they do more harm than good in the long run?
Lesley
Answers:
Lesley,
I initially trained in Sports Massage with a guy who delighted in people getting off the couch with tears in their eyes. However I was not happy and joined a different course where I was taught to work deeply only where needed and at all times working with the client's own pain threshold.
I have worked for some time to great effect - not one day wonders (although it does happen sometimes) - this has resulted in a great number of repeat client's where I work. I suggest you look around for a good therapist - one who understands the client's needs a little better.
Finally, in slight defence of your therapist, if she worked on the piriformis (deep in buttocks) then it would be painful. However, I would expect that to be a small element of the treatment.
Ken
Answers:
Hi Lesley,
This level of pain is never good!
Sounds like your therapist was not very in touch with your needs, particularly if she ignored your localised contras.
Congestion and sluggish lymph would not be helped by this severe technique; such huge pressure would actually shut down the lymph system in self-defence. Manual lymphatic drainage massage is the lightest imaginable pressure as it is the technique which works, not the pressure. The perisformis is pressed to ascertain the client's pain threshold so that the right amount of pressure is used over the iliac crest, as this has the deepest pressure of the massage, but is still nowhere near the pressure of Swedish (Ive not experienced sports so I don't know how heavy it is). A decent therapist would gauge your reaction from feling the muscle response, even if you rwere trying to grit your teeth. Maybe you could try MLD once your bruising subsides?
Assuming you have no other health problems but the backache, if your back pain canot be identified you might be better off giving strong massage a miss until you do get a diagnosis, seeing a kinesiologist or TCM specialist who can look at you energy channels to try to find a cause might help.
I wish you were nearer to me, my kinesiologist is fab. Look for someone trained by the Association of Systematic Kinesiology, they have a website.
Good luck with it.
Love and light.
Answers:
Hello you
I will wait to be shot down by the sports therapists here.....I was going to train as one and went for a few and they were all without exception very painful. I now do a mixture of deep tissue, NMT and Soft tissue release and my clients go away with loosened muscles, no pain - or very little and it lasts and lasts, i strongly believe that sticking your thumbs into an area that is tense is working on the prinicple of prising the muscle apart whether it likes it or not and this causes damage hence the pain....also I find that with a lot of therapists they carry on even when the muscle has tensed up causing further damage.....
Maybe we will have to book a day and I will come over and sort you out young lady!!!!!!
T
x
Answers:
Oooh T, sounds good, but you have other priorities right now. I think you've all confirmed what I thought, although to give the therapist her due, she did give me permission to tell her if it was too painful - I just never took her up on it. I have had sports massages before, but never quite that painful and although I always thought that I would bruise, this is the first time it has happened. I know that at times I had to tense my muscles as the pain was so intense, which wouldn't have made the treatment that effective.
Pain is there for a reaon - to stop us doing the thing that causes the pain (with the exception of labour!!) or to investigate why it is there, so it did raise questions in my mind. I must say, that this particular therapist had a reputation amongs the other therapists and the clients as being 'good'.
As far as my back is concerned, I have had it investigated, but with no conclusion. In the last two and a half years have tried chiropractic, osteopathy and two cortisone injections. This week I'm going to start having one-to-one pilates sessions, so hopefully that may help.
Thanks again for your help.
Lesley
Answers:
Sounds like a 'V*C*' Sports Massage Therapist to me LOL :)
IMPO too many 'therapists' think 'no pain no gain' and all too commonly people report experiences like this (grrrrrrr.)
Admittedly a client may (NOT SHOULD) experience some 'discomfort' (well pain :) ) during certain treatments, and as Ken says, due to the proximity of the sciatic nerve to piriformis, it can well be 'uncomfortable' to say the least.
'Pain is there for a reaon - to stop us doing the thing that causes the pain' can't say I entirely agree with this. Most of us can differentiate between 'nice pain' and 'nasty pain'. In particular I'm thinking of when someone massages your neck / shoulders and you 'want' then to stick their thumbs in. One instinctively knows it's doing good (or is it just me [&:])
PS
I'd be extermely grateful if you would answer the following questions
How detailed was your examination prior to treatment?
What did the the Therapist tell you were their aims for treatment?
They told you the treatment could be painful (good) but did they tell you why?
(ie: on what basis were you just expected to give 'informed consent')
How was the effectiveness of the treatment evaluated?
What aftercare advice were you given?
I've got a funny feeling I know the answers to most :eek:
Answers:
Thanks DFNU
I take your points. Firm massage on my neck muscles I don't actually count as pain in the way that I experienced it during this particular treatment.
In answer to your other questions, this was a health farm break and as a therapist myself, I do have issues with the lack of consultation procedure and have actually spoken to their management (before I trained, I visited for many years with a friend and we had regular massages, even though she has a history of DVT - no questions asked). The procedure is, when booking the treatments a month or so before the visit, the contraindications are listed (but not explained) with symbols by the treatments denoting each contra (although there were often misprints). There is no procedure for disclosing anything which may occur in the month between booking and receiving the treatment.
This particular therapist did ask me briefly if I had any particular problems which was when I told her that I had the problems with my lower back and pelvis. After the treatment she told me to not do anything strenuous and I told her that I intended to stretch before I went to bed and when I got up in the morning, to stop me 'seizing up'.
As I said before, this was a 'one off' treatment, so it was never intended to be used long term. I was just curious as to the necessity of the pain and bruising.
Thanks again.
Lesley
Answers:
It's times like this I'd luuuuv to be a 'Compensation Lawyer :D:D
Where there's a blame there's a claim?............. not 'arf!!
'this was a health farm break' - 'one off' treatment.
Totally irrelevant 'duty of care' is identical How could they 'justify' the treatment they gave (since it would leave you bruised and in pain in this instance I'd call it common assault)= £££££££££ [8D]
contraindications are listed (but not explained)
'I was just curious as to the necessity of the pain and bruising'
So therapist (sic) obviously didn't get ' Informed consent' = ££££££ [8D]
Should really laugh it's people like this that give the profession a bad name
Answers:
Hi Aromababe
I haven't been on the forum for a while so just going through some of these messages and saw this one. How is your back doing?
I am a multi therapist and do sports massage, aromatherapy, lymph drainage, reflexology and various others including reiki and cranio sacral therapy.
I have found cst to be a very powerful therapy and recently managed to "diagnose" someone accurately whilst he was in another country. Have always managed to do this when people are in the same room but never tried it with distance.
My first instint is to ask whether you have been pregnant in the past, and/or have ever fallen onto your bum or had any type of accident eg whiplash. Also what was your birth like - a long labour, natural, use of forceps/ventouse etc.
Can you explain more specifically where in the lumbar the pain is?
I have also had success treating people with groin strain when they have been suffering for several years. I tend to mix my techniques so clients can receive a mixture of blends with sports massage, lymph drainage etc
Not sure if I can help you but am happy to try if you wish.
Answers:
I'm shocked at that! Having worked as a sports therapist for 5 years, and worked on rugby and football players amongst other 'toughies'(!), I have had alot of relaxed muscles and done alot of uncomfortable techniques without ever ever bruising people or having them get off my couch in pain! Fair enough you should expect some discomfort while on the couch, and the next day, that's a 50/50 chance though. If you're going so hard you're bruising people you're actually tensing the muscles you want to relax, there's no point! Personally I'd report the therapist, it shouldn't be up to you to tell her when to stop, she should judge it for herself if she's a good therapist. I always go easy at first and at every stage check my patient is ok.
Sounds like you have typical symptoms of a twisted pelvis, a very common problem which an osteaopath will be able to treat - properly. I'd advise you see one and check if that's what's causing your aches.
She explained that the treatment may be painful, but that I could tell her to lighten up if necessary. The pain was actually excrutiating, and although I knew it didn't have to be, I let her do her stuff because I knew it would help me. I know I have sluggish circulation (both blood and lymph) in my legs and bottom, so wanted the congestion cleared a bit.
She told me I would be sore the next day and maybe bruised and I do now have quite a large area of bruising over my buttocks.
I'm not particularly worried about this, but as a matter of interest, is it really beneficial/necessary to cause this amount of pain a superficial damage in order to loosen the muscles. As a holistic massage therapist I was always trained not to give too deep a massage over any broken or thread veins, but I have quite a lot on my legs and this therapist didn't avoid these areas.
I did feel looser for a while (and certainly very spaced out), but the aches and pains are back (the three hour car journey back didn't help). I know I should have regular treatments, but was wondering if I did have these sort of treatments on a weekly basis, would they do more harm than good in the long run?
Lesley
Answers:
Lesley,
I initially trained in Sports Massage with a guy who delighted in people getting off the couch with tears in their eyes. However I was not happy and joined a different course where I was taught to work deeply only where needed and at all times working with the client's own pain threshold.
I have worked for some time to great effect - not one day wonders (although it does happen sometimes) - this has resulted in a great number of repeat client's where I work. I suggest you look around for a good therapist - one who understands the client's needs a little better.
Finally, in slight defence of your therapist, if she worked on the piriformis (deep in buttocks) then it would be painful. However, I would expect that to be a small element of the treatment.
Ken
Answers:
Hi Lesley,
This level of pain is never good!
Sounds like your therapist was not very in touch with your needs, particularly if she ignored your localised contras.
Congestion and sluggish lymph would not be helped by this severe technique; such huge pressure would actually shut down the lymph system in self-defence. Manual lymphatic drainage massage is the lightest imaginable pressure as it is the technique which works, not the pressure. The perisformis is pressed to ascertain the client's pain threshold so that the right amount of pressure is used over the iliac crest, as this has the deepest pressure of the massage, but is still nowhere near the pressure of Swedish (Ive not experienced sports so I don't know how heavy it is). A decent therapist would gauge your reaction from feling the muscle response, even if you rwere trying to grit your teeth. Maybe you could try MLD once your bruising subsides?
Assuming you have no other health problems but the backache, if your back pain canot be identified you might be better off giving strong massage a miss until you do get a diagnosis, seeing a kinesiologist or TCM specialist who can look at you energy channels to try to find a cause might help.
I wish you were nearer to me, my kinesiologist is fab. Look for someone trained by the Association of Systematic Kinesiology, they have a website.
Good luck with it.
Love and light.
Answers:
Hello you
I will wait to be shot down by the sports therapists here.....I was going to train as one and went for a few and they were all without exception very painful. I now do a mixture of deep tissue, NMT and Soft tissue release and my clients go away with loosened muscles, no pain - or very little and it lasts and lasts, i strongly believe that sticking your thumbs into an area that is tense is working on the prinicple of prising the muscle apart whether it likes it or not and this causes damage hence the pain....also I find that with a lot of therapists they carry on even when the muscle has tensed up causing further damage.....
Maybe we will have to book a day and I will come over and sort you out young lady!!!!!!
T
x
Answers:
Oooh T, sounds good, but you have other priorities right now. I think you've all confirmed what I thought, although to give the therapist her due, she did give me permission to tell her if it was too painful - I just never took her up on it. I have had sports massages before, but never quite that painful and although I always thought that I would bruise, this is the first time it has happened. I know that at times I had to tense my muscles as the pain was so intense, which wouldn't have made the treatment that effective.
Pain is there for a reaon - to stop us doing the thing that causes the pain (with the exception of labour!!) or to investigate why it is there, so it did raise questions in my mind. I must say, that this particular therapist had a reputation amongs the other therapists and the clients as being 'good'.
As far as my back is concerned, I have had it investigated, but with no conclusion. In the last two and a half years have tried chiropractic, osteopathy and two cortisone injections. This week I'm going to start having one-to-one pilates sessions, so hopefully that may help.
Thanks again for your help.
Lesley
Answers:
Sounds like a 'V*C*' Sports Massage Therapist to me LOL :)
IMPO too many 'therapists' think 'no pain no gain' and all too commonly people report experiences like this (grrrrrrr.)
Admittedly a client may (NOT SHOULD) experience some 'discomfort' (well pain :) ) during certain treatments, and as Ken says, due to the proximity of the sciatic nerve to piriformis, it can well be 'uncomfortable' to say the least.
'Pain is there for a reaon - to stop us doing the thing that causes the pain' can't say I entirely agree with this. Most of us can differentiate between 'nice pain' and 'nasty pain'. In particular I'm thinking of when someone massages your neck / shoulders and you 'want' then to stick their thumbs in. One instinctively knows it's doing good (or is it just me [&:])
PS
I'd be extermely grateful if you would answer the following questions
How detailed was your examination prior to treatment?
What did the the Therapist tell you were their aims for treatment?
They told you the treatment could be painful (good) but did they tell you why?
(ie: on what basis were you just expected to give 'informed consent')
How was the effectiveness of the treatment evaluated?
What aftercare advice were you given?
I've got a funny feeling I know the answers to most :eek:
Answers:
Thanks DFNU
I take your points. Firm massage on my neck muscles I don't actually count as pain in the way that I experienced it during this particular treatment.
In answer to your other questions, this was a health farm break and as a therapist myself, I do have issues with the lack of consultation procedure and have actually spoken to their management (before I trained, I visited for many years with a friend and we had regular massages, even though she has a history of DVT - no questions asked). The procedure is, when booking the treatments a month or so before the visit, the contraindications are listed (but not explained) with symbols by the treatments denoting each contra (although there were often misprints). There is no procedure for disclosing anything which may occur in the month between booking and receiving the treatment.
This particular therapist did ask me briefly if I had any particular problems which was when I told her that I had the problems with my lower back and pelvis. After the treatment she told me to not do anything strenuous and I told her that I intended to stretch before I went to bed and when I got up in the morning, to stop me 'seizing up'.
As I said before, this was a 'one off' treatment, so it was never intended to be used long term. I was just curious as to the necessity of the pain and bruising.
Thanks again.
Lesley
Answers:
It's times like this I'd luuuuv to be a 'Compensation Lawyer :D:D
Where there's a blame there's a claim?............. not 'arf!!
'this was a health farm break' - 'one off' treatment.
Totally irrelevant 'duty of care' is identical How could they 'justify' the treatment they gave (since it would leave you bruised and in pain in this instance I'd call it common assault)= £££££££££ [8D]
contraindications are listed (but not explained)
'I was just curious as to the necessity of the pain and bruising'
So therapist (sic) obviously didn't get ' Informed consent' = ££££££ [8D]
Should really laugh it's people like this that give the profession a bad name
Answers:
Hi Aromababe
I haven't been on the forum for a while so just going through some of these messages and saw this one. How is your back doing?
I am a multi therapist and do sports massage, aromatherapy, lymph drainage, reflexology and various others including reiki and cranio sacral therapy.
I have found cst to be a very powerful therapy and recently managed to "diagnose" someone accurately whilst he was in another country. Have always managed to do this when people are in the same room but never tried it with distance.
My first instint is to ask whether you have been pregnant in the past, and/or have ever fallen onto your bum or had any type of accident eg whiplash. Also what was your birth like - a long labour, natural, use of forceps/ventouse etc.
Can you explain more specifically where in the lumbar the pain is?
I have also had success treating people with groin strain when they have been suffering for several years. I tend to mix my techniques so clients can receive a mixture of blends with sports massage, lymph drainage etc
Not sure if I can help you but am happy to try if you wish.
Answers:
I'm shocked at that! Having worked as a sports therapist for 5 years, and worked on rugby and football players amongst other 'toughies'(!), I have had alot of relaxed muscles and done alot of uncomfortable techniques without ever ever bruising people or having them get off my couch in pain! Fair enough you should expect some discomfort while on the couch, and the next day, that's a 50/50 chance though. If you're going so hard you're bruising people you're actually tensing the muscles you want to relax, there's no point! Personally I'd report the therapist, it shouldn't be up to you to tell her when to stop, she should judge it for herself if she's a good therapist. I always go easy at first and at every stage check my patient is ok.
Sounds like you have typical symptoms of a twisted pelvis, a very common problem which an osteaopath will be able to treat - properly. I'd advise you see one and check if that's what's causing your aches.