Different charges for different levels of Reiki
The reason for charging increasing amounts of money for different levels of Reiki has always seemed strange to me, apart from of course, wanting to make a muchmoney as possible.
To me, the amount of work that goes into teaching the levels of Reiki is roughly equal. Indeed, I find the first level the most tiring, as there are four attunments for each student, with only two for level 2, and only 1 for master/teacher.
At level 1, you have to demonstrate Reiki to people who may have no experience of the occult or psychic world, and this can take some time and patience.
At level 2, the students are more accepting, having gained practical experience of Reiki, and will believe most anything that you teach them. You also supply them with information that they can take away with them, and learn at their own pace. Iv'e rarely found anyone who could draw HSZSN, let alone understand it by the end of the course.
Level 3, is of course the easiest, just one attunement, demonstating the attunement, and getting them to practice it, plus anything else that you think might be interesting to them.
So why do people charge increasing amounts for different levels, apart from "it's always been done that way"
Answers:
Hi David[/align][/align]A good point, most of the hard work goes into the first level as you have to lay the foundations there, the rest of the levels just build on that knowledge, it does very form modality to modality but with Reiki yes I agree :-)[/align]
Answers:
I think it comes down to the old belief that if you pay more for something then you (supposedly) value it more and therefore if you're paying a lot for your Reiki Master/Teacher then you respect the fact that it's not just a case of "hey I've been attuned to Master, let's go out and attune everyone else", but that there are responsibilities involved in being a teacher.
Something like that anyway. ;)
Love and Reiki Hugs
Answers:
Hi Lionman,
I agree.
The only thing that might be worth considering is that you (usually) aren't qualified as a practioner at the end of Reiki 1, whereas with Reiki II people can be let loose on the public. It's possible that some practioners charge more for Reiki II than I because they are ensuring that the person is serious about what they're doing...ultimately it's going to look bad on you as a Reiki Teacher if one of your past students is an offputting practioner for some reason. The same goes for Reiki III, you're assuming a greater degree of 'responsibility' by giving someone the means to start teaching themselves.
Ultimately we shouldn't have to feel responsible for other people's actions, but I'm talking systematically- at present it is common for students to be qualifiedto practice at R II and qualified to teach others at R III.
Answers:
Hi Lionman, just to mention that I don't think that Master level is as easy as you state, it is not just about the attunement and demonstrating this, it is about ensuring the student knows the level of responsibility that comes with being a Master of reiki and can also teach their students how to use reiki and all the relevant knowledge about reiki too.
I presume you are a reiki master and I am quite alarmed that you have students who cannot draw or understand the HSZSN as this is a fundamental part of reiki which is necessary for self development and healing and is also necessary for the student to join a reiki association.
If a student cannot draw or understand the HSZSN, they should not qualify until they can. Bear in mind that this student would then have the potential take a master course and if they do not understand it, how can they attune and teach another?
I agree with Azalia about the actual charges though, they usually reflect a level of committment and responsibility. If someone really wants to do the course but cannot afford it, they can always ask for a reduction or other options.
Where there is a will, there is a way!
Darren
Answers:
I think we all agree then that being a master requires an understanding of the responsibility involved.
I think, in fairness, lionman was just saying that some people have trouble remembering how to draw HSZSN within the timescales of the course. It's not unusual, and I think I was the only one on our course who could remember it straight away, but that's just the way my mind works in remembering images and graphics. Most people have to take it away and practice it until they get it right, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't qualify as Reiki II practitioners because, as we all know, what matters most is that the intention behind the symbol is there. As I say to people, if I wanted to draw a pink elephant but have the same intention behind it as one of the normal reiki symbols then it would work just as effectively, as long as my intention was true.
Love and Reiki Hugs
Answers:
May I ask ... where did this one come from? I cannot seriously imagine that, were I to send off a request to join a Reiki organisation, they would reply: "Sorry, missus, but we can't possiblybank your chequeuntil we're sure you understand the HSZSN". :D
Do please enlighten me as to the source of this supposition, because as it stands it looks quite frankly just plain silly [:-]
Holistic
Answers:
[hr]Hi Holistic, the reference I make to joining an association was to the fact that many organisations require the practitioner to send a copy of the symbols drawn by themselves. They don't ask for an essay on your understanding of what the symbol means though. I can see why you misunderstood what I meant.
Giles - I disagree that it is purely the intention behind the symbol that counts because the symbol itself has its own power and meaning associated to it. If a practitioner uses the symbol and it is incorrect, they will alter the power and meaning of the symbol. In the case of the HSZSN purely as a Japanese word, if you missed out a part of it (in effect spelling it incorrectly) you would have a different meaning and concept behind the word.
This is the same with the reiki symbols; alter the symbol and you alter its meaning. On another level, the practitioner who is incorrectly using the symbol will know that they are not using it correctly and develop a sloppy mindset which will undermine their own abilities. I have seen this many times.
You will undoubtedly agree that images have their own power so I cannot see how you could say that intention alone would be as effective as using the correct symbol with the intention to match. It would be no where near as effective as using the correct symbol for the healing. It is also disempowering for the student as it implies that the symbols they have spent time learning need not be learnt, which is not true. When the correct symbol and intention are used, the result is a more effective healing than simply using either the symbol or intention alone.
Darren
Answers:
[sm=offtopic.gif]maybe a new topic regarding symbols is required ? :D
Anyway I am not a Master yet but about to embark on my course which is a four day course. Surely if it is a four day course there must be more to it than insinuated in this thread, like theres your attunement, thanks for coming, bye bye. Four days is a long time but I have no doubt that it is necessary and I am happy to pay for the time as I truly beleive there is much more to becoming a Reiki teacher than passing on an attunment and telling them how to then pass one on.
Surely it is also about methods so that you might intergrate Reiki into your life and methods for assisting you with the energies and helping you to learn how to teach in a good way and really understanding what is all about rather than the motions.
Me I would rather pay what I am paying and receive the support I am receiving (in fact I am even receiving advanced support in the form of preparation advice) and the course I am receiving than pay the same as I did for Reiki I or even Reiki II and miss out on some valuable information or help.
Just MHO. Obviously some people charge less for courses just as long because they can afford to but I do beleive that todays Reiki pricing structure is fair and as already mentioned if it is meant to be the money will come, I had no money for any of my courses but I was provided for and have thankfully been able to continue my journey.
Answers:
Azalia 27/9
I have come across quite a few people who give Reiki to people and charge, even though they haven't got level 2. I think the view that you shouldn't practice on the public until you are a 2, is part of the sinister heirarchy of Reiki, these 1's, got/learn't their 2 symbols from books/internet and meditated and gained understanding by themselves.
Energylz 28/8
Symbols, yes that was the point I was trying to make.
In the Furumoto school, I believe that on 2 you get the symbols and draw them, but at the end of the course, your drawings are collected and taken away. A friend of mine who did his 2 in this school, and paid £350 for it over 10 years ago, 2 days later couldn't remember how to draw HSZSN, I believe this is why there are so many variations of HSZSN & DKM.
Not Energylz
On the subject of teaching. As amaster, allI do is present the information. I CANNOT teach a person how to teach, in 2 days or 4 days. If a person wants to 'teach', I suggest they go to uni for 3-4 years. What I do is share the information and try to the best of my ability to make sure they understand it. (I also run free Reiki shares as a follow-up). One the the philosophical tenents of my master practice is that "my students are my teachers"
Answers:
Then I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
If it is your belief that your intention is disrupted by not drawing the symbols accurately (and those of us who have studied and know the symbols down to the every stroke and know how a slight difference can change the whole meaning) then IMO, it is a case that you do not trust your own intention. If my intention is for the Reiki to be used with the true intention of the symbol then I do not have to say the words or draw the symbol, my intention is strong and it works.
Love and Reiki Hugs
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Lionman, who is Not Energylz ?
Answers:
As I read that, I think Lionman has finished directing part of his reply to Energylz, and is continuing with a general reply ... but no doubt he can confirm that when he's next on line.
Holistic
Answers:
Holistic 30/8
Right first time!!!
Answers:
lol, thanks to both of you for that !
It was me just being a bit thick :D
x Reikilight x
Answers:
OK, so we're talking about Reiki organisations in the UK, yes? So just how many are there? A handful. I know there are international organisations, some USA based, but I don't think they're what we're talking about.
And I'm sorry, but it still seems somewhat laughable to me, it all reminds me of "Look Mummy, I did a drawing at school". :D
You also said, admittedly to Giles not to me:
I happen to agree with Giles with regard to intention, and have posted to this effect on several occasions over the last couple of years. I won't repeat myself.
You also said:
Now do forgive me, for I wish to be neither rude nor personal. In yoursecond ever post on HP you said you had discovered Reiki a year ago. It's on record. Add some time to the end of Apriland that's some 16 months ago. Not a vast amount of time I'd have thought to have gained theamount of experience that would be required to make such definitive and sweeping statements as to what is right and what is wrong, and how everyone should be doing it, don't you think?
With respect,
Holistic
Answers:
Lionman,
Re Reiki 1's charging: I think times have changed. When I did Reiki 1, some 11+ years ago, I recall our RMT telling us that we now had everything we needed to be hands-on Reiki practitioners. Although I never did charge at that level, and neither did any of the others in the small group of us who did Reiki 1 together.
It's only since litigation has been on the increase, that the insurance companies have made the stipulation that you must be a Reiki 2 before you can practice on the general public, so that's what's now widely advocated and therefore come to be accepted.
Teaching ... no, I agree, you can't teach someone how to teach, not in the time scale involved in a Reiki Master class, however long that takes. For specific information regarding teacher training courses, put 7307 or 7407 into Search, for they have previously been discussed here in relation to Reiki.
IMHO, the best way to learn how to do anything, teaching included, is to do it, because that's how people learn, by experience and not by someone saying this is how you do it. Does anyone learn how to paint a picture by being told to pick up a paintbrush and dip it in the paint?
Unfortunately, however, it seems that the regulatory process might requirecertificationwith regard to teaching. I could say I'm alright Jack, I have the 7307 teaching qualification, but what about the countless excellet natural teachers who do not have that bit of paper?
Holistic
Answers:
When I mentioned the being helped with the teaching obviously I never meant a degree in teaching because that would be mad, my sister teaches and spent years in a University and plainly thats not really required for teaching Reiki in weekend courses or even week long course but a certain degree of help and information on teaching it is possible to impart in a Masters course and personally I would rather pay a bit more and have more information.
There are things that you can advise people in short courses that can prove invaluable just as I am sure at level one or two or when ever you choose it is possible to impart valuable knowledge on being a pracitioner but that wont obviously immediately qualify a person as a great practitioner.
I must note however that I am not saying that the cost of the course guarantees the content or the teaching or anything and each course must be judged on its own merits just that when I found the one I wanted it was more expensive but I am happy to pay for what I am getting.
with Reiki blessings, Reikilight xxxx
Answers:
In principle, I agree with you. However, it seems that the regulation bods might not, if a teacher training qualification is to become a prerequisite.
My words quoted in the box above were in reply to lionman's post where he put "teaching" in inverted commas. There are some who are natural teachers and others who, however well they know their subject, simply cannot teach at all. My own schooldays ... a distant memory LOL ... bear testament to this. In relation to Reiki there was a thread hereon Teachers - born or made???
Holistic
To me, the amount of work that goes into teaching the levels of Reiki is roughly equal. Indeed, I find the first level the most tiring, as there are four attunments for each student, with only two for level 2, and only 1 for master/teacher.
At level 1, you have to demonstrate Reiki to people who may have no experience of the occult or psychic world, and this can take some time and patience.
At level 2, the students are more accepting, having gained practical experience of Reiki, and will believe most anything that you teach them. You also supply them with information that they can take away with them, and learn at their own pace. Iv'e rarely found anyone who could draw HSZSN, let alone understand it by the end of the course.
Level 3, is of course the easiest, just one attunement, demonstating the attunement, and getting them to practice it, plus anything else that you think might be interesting to them.
So why do people charge increasing amounts for different levels, apart from "it's always been done that way"
Answers:
Hi David[/align][/align]A good point, most of the hard work goes into the first level as you have to lay the foundations there, the rest of the levels just build on that knowledge, it does very form modality to modality but with Reiki yes I agree :-)[/align]
Answers:
I think it comes down to the old belief that if you pay more for something then you (supposedly) value it more and therefore if you're paying a lot for your Reiki Master/Teacher then you respect the fact that it's not just a case of "hey I've been attuned to Master, let's go out and attune everyone else", but that there are responsibilities involved in being a teacher.
Something like that anyway. ;)
Love and Reiki Hugs
Answers:
Hi Lionman,
I agree.
The only thing that might be worth considering is that you (usually) aren't qualified as a practioner at the end of Reiki 1, whereas with Reiki II people can be let loose on the public. It's possible that some practioners charge more for Reiki II than I because they are ensuring that the person is serious about what they're doing...ultimately it's going to look bad on you as a Reiki Teacher if one of your past students is an offputting practioner for some reason. The same goes for Reiki III, you're assuming a greater degree of 'responsibility' by giving someone the means to start teaching themselves.
Ultimately we shouldn't have to feel responsible for other people's actions, but I'm talking systematically- at present it is common for students to be qualifiedto practice at R II and qualified to teach others at R III.
Answers:
Hi Lionman, just to mention that I don't think that Master level is as easy as you state, it is not just about the attunement and demonstrating this, it is about ensuring the student knows the level of responsibility that comes with being a Master of reiki and can also teach their students how to use reiki and all the relevant knowledge about reiki too.
I presume you are a reiki master and I am quite alarmed that you have students who cannot draw or understand the HSZSN as this is a fundamental part of reiki which is necessary for self development and healing and is also necessary for the student to join a reiki association.
If a student cannot draw or understand the HSZSN, they should not qualify until they can. Bear in mind that this student would then have the potential take a master course and if they do not understand it, how can they attune and teach another?
I agree with Azalia about the actual charges though, they usually reflect a level of committment and responsibility. If someone really wants to do the course but cannot afford it, they can always ask for a reduction or other options.
Where there is a will, there is a way!
Darren
Answers:
I think we all agree then that being a master requires an understanding of the responsibility involved.
I think, in fairness, lionman was just saying that some people have trouble remembering how to draw HSZSN within the timescales of the course. It's not unusual, and I think I was the only one on our course who could remember it straight away, but that's just the way my mind works in remembering images and graphics. Most people have to take it away and practice it until they get it right, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't qualify as Reiki II practitioners because, as we all know, what matters most is that the intention behind the symbol is there. As I say to people, if I wanted to draw a pink elephant but have the same intention behind it as one of the normal reiki symbols then it would work just as effectively, as long as my intention was true.
Love and Reiki Hugs
Answers:
May I ask ... where did this one come from? I cannot seriously imagine that, were I to send off a request to join a Reiki organisation, they would reply: "Sorry, missus, but we can't possiblybank your chequeuntil we're sure you understand the HSZSN". :D
Do please enlighten me as to the source of this supposition, because as it stands it looks quite frankly just plain silly [:-]
Holistic
Answers:
[hr]Hi Holistic, the reference I make to joining an association was to the fact that many organisations require the practitioner to send a copy of the symbols drawn by themselves. They don't ask for an essay on your understanding of what the symbol means though. I can see why you misunderstood what I meant.
Giles - I disagree that it is purely the intention behind the symbol that counts because the symbol itself has its own power and meaning associated to it. If a practitioner uses the symbol and it is incorrect, they will alter the power and meaning of the symbol. In the case of the HSZSN purely as a Japanese word, if you missed out a part of it (in effect spelling it incorrectly) you would have a different meaning and concept behind the word.
This is the same with the reiki symbols; alter the symbol and you alter its meaning. On another level, the practitioner who is incorrectly using the symbol will know that they are not using it correctly and develop a sloppy mindset which will undermine their own abilities. I have seen this many times.
You will undoubtedly agree that images have their own power so I cannot see how you could say that intention alone would be as effective as using the correct symbol with the intention to match. It would be no where near as effective as using the correct symbol for the healing. It is also disempowering for the student as it implies that the symbols they have spent time learning need not be learnt, which is not true. When the correct symbol and intention are used, the result is a more effective healing than simply using either the symbol or intention alone.
Darren
Answers:
[sm=offtopic.gif]maybe a new topic regarding symbols is required ? :D
Anyway I am not a Master yet but about to embark on my course which is a four day course. Surely if it is a four day course there must be more to it than insinuated in this thread, like theres your attunement, thanks for coming, bye bye. Four days is a long time but I have no doubt that it is necessary and I am happy to pay for the time as I truly beleive there is much more to becoming a Reiki teacher than passing on an attunment and telling them how to then pass one on.
Surely it is also about methods so that you might intergrate Reiki into your life and methods for assisting you with the energies and helping you to learn how to teach in a good way and really understanding what is all about rather than the motions.
Me I would rather pay what I am paying and receive the support I am receiving (in fact I am even receiving advanced support in the form of preparation advice) and the course I am receiving than pay the same as I did for Reiki I or even Reiki II and miss out on some valuable information or help.
Just MHO. Obviously some people charge less for courses just as long because they can afford to but I do beleive that todays Reiki pricing structure is fair and as already mentioned if it is meant to be the money will come, I had no money for any of my courses but I was provided for and have thankfully been able to continue my journey.
Answers:
Azalia 27/9
I have come across quite a few people who give Reiki to people and charge, even though they haven't got level 2. I think the view that you shouldn't practice on the public until you are a 2, is part of the sinister heirarchy of Reiki, these 1's, got/learn't their 2 symbols from books/internet and meditated and gained understanding by themselves.
Energylz 28/8
Symbols, yes that was the point I was trying to make.
In the Furumoto school, I believe that on 2 you get the symbols and draw them, but at the end of the course, your drawings are collected and taken away. A friend of mine who did his 2 in this school, and paid £350 for it over 10 years ago, 2 days later couldn't remember how to draw HSZSN, I believe this is why there are so many variations of HSZSN & DKM.
Not Energylz
On the subject of teaching. As amaster, allI do is present the information. I CANNOT teach a person how to teach, in 2 days or 4 days. If a person wants to 'teach', I suggest they go to uni for 3-4 years. What I do is share the information and try to the best of my ability to make sure they understand it. (I also run free Reiki shares as a follow-up). One the the philosophical tenents of my master practice is that "my students are my teachers"
Answers:
Then I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
If it is your belief that your intention is disrupted by not drawing the symbols accurately (and those of us who have studied and know the symbols down to the every stroke and know how a slight difference can change the whole meaning) then IMO, it is a case that you do not trust your own intention. If my intention is for the Reiki to be used with the true intention of the symbol then I do not have to say the words or draw the symbol, my intention is strong and it works.
Love and Reiki Hugs
Answers:
Lionman, who is Not Energylz ?
Answers:
As I read that, I think Lionman has finished directing part of his reply to Energylz, and is continuing with a general reply ... but no doubt he can confirm that when he's next on line.
Holistic
Answers:
Holistic 30/8
Right first time!!!
Answers:
lol, thanks to both of you for that !
It was me just being a bit thick :D
x Reikilight x
Answers:
OK, so we're talking about Reiki organisations in the UK, yes? So just how many are there? A handful. I know there are international organisations, some USA based, but I don't think they're what we're talking about.
And I'm sorry, but it still seems somewhat laughable to me, it all reminds me of "Look Mummy, I did a drawing at school". :D
You also said, admittedly to Giles not to me:
I happen to agree with Giles with regard to intention, and have posted to this effect on several occasions over the last couple of years. I won't repeat myself.
You also said:
Now do forgive me, for I wish to be neither rude nor personal. In yoursecond ever post on HP you said you had discovered Reiki a year ago. It's on record. Add some time to the end of Apriland that's some 16 months ago. Not a vast amount of time I'd have thought to have gained theamount of experience that would be required to make such definitive and sweeping statements as to what is right and what is wrong, and how everyone should be doing it, don't you think?
With respect,
Holistic
Answers:
Lionman,
Re Reiki 1's charging: I think times have changed. When I did Reiki 1, some 11+ years ago, I recall our RMT telling us that we now had everything we needed to be hands-on Reiki practitioners. Although I never did charge at that level, and neither did any of the others in the small group of us who did Reiki 1 together.
It's only since litigation has been on the increase, that the insurance companies have made the stipulation that you must be a Reiki 2 before you can practice on the general public, so that's what's now widely advocated and therefore come to be accepted.
Teaching ... no, I agree, you can't teach someone how to teach, not in the time scale involved in a Reiki Master class, however long that takes. For specific information regarding teacher training courses, put 7307 or 7407 into Search, for they have previously been discussed here in relation to Reiki.
IMHO, the best way to learn how to do anything, teaching included, is to do it, because that's how people learn, by experience and not by someone saying this is how you do it. Does anyone learn how to paint a picture by being told to pick up a paintbrush and dip it in the paint?
Unfortunately, however, it seems that the regulatory process might requirecertificationwith regard to teaching. I could say I'm alright Jack, I have the 7307 teaching qualification, but what about the countless excellet natural teachers who do not have that bit of paper?
Holistic
Answers:
When I mentioned the being helped with the teaching obviously I never meant a degree in teaching because that would be mad, my sister teaches and spent years in a University and plainly thats not really required for teaching Reiki in weekend courses or even week long course but a certain degree of help and information on teaching it is possible to impart in a Masters course and personally I would rather pay a bit more and have more information.
There are things that you can advise people in short courses that can prove invaluable just as I am sure at level one or two or when ever you choose it is possible to impart valuable knowledge on being a pracitioner but that wont obviously immediately qualify a person as a great practitioner.
I must note however that I am not saying that the cost of the course guarantees the content or the teaching or anything and each course must be judged on its own merits just that when I found the one I wanted it was more expensive but I am happy to pay for what I am getting.
with Reiki blessings, Reikilight xxxx
Answers:
In principle, I agree with you. However, it seems that the regulation bods might not, if a teacher training qualification is to become a prerequisite.
My words quoted in the box above were in reply to lionman's post where he put "teaching" in inverted commas. There are some who are natural teachers and others who, however well they know their subject, simply cannot teach at all. My own schooldays ... a distant memory LOL ... bear testament to this. In relation to Reiki there was a thread hereon Teachers - born or made???
Holistic