Have you tried a 9 day CKD cycle?
Have you tried a 9 day CKD cycle?
I started this thread about not having time to fit in cardio...
It got me thinking about possibly changing to a 9 or 10 day cycle instead of a standard 7 day cycle...and I felt that deserved its own thread...
The basic point of that thread is that I am not recovering fast enough to get in all the exercise that I want to. Monday and Tuesday are my balls to the walls workout hard days...but that makes me too sore on Friday to do my depletion workout. Likewise, the DOMS is too severe to get any cardio done on the recovery days.
I want to leave that thread alone for now, and explore the idea of going on a 9 day cycle...that may give me enough rest between workouts...but it will wreak havoc on my social life (I was getting used to carbs on Saturday)...
Here is my idea for a 9 day cycle:
Day 1: First day after carbup...could be sore from depletion workout...mild cardio if possible.
Day 2: Push Routine (squats, benchpress, shoulder press, dips)
Day 3: Recovery Day
Day 4: Pull Routine (deadlifts, chinups, pullups, rows)
Day 5: recovery day
Day 6: recovery day
Day 7: cardio...twice (once during lunch, once after dinner)
Day 8: Full-body Depletion Workout (carb-up begins)
Day 9: Carb-Up full day
My other idea is to do a freestyle CKD where I do the depletion workout whenever I am recovered from the previous workout instead of sticking to a specific schedule. It could take 8 days to complete...or even 10. It all depends on how hard I hit the weights on my primary two workout days.
I definately don't want to go on a 2 week cycle. I feel that this is too long for me to go without the carb-up. I can get in 1 solid day of cardio...possibly another one depending on my DOMS. I also have the option of working out 2 days in a row like I did this week. Instead of having day 3 be a recovery day...it can be the pull routine day...
TKD is another option...but I don't want to go there yet. Any thoughts?
I started this thread about not having time to fit in cardio...
It got me thinking about possibly changing to a 9 or 10 day cycle instead of a standard 7 day cycle...and I felt that deserved its own thread...
The basic point of that thread is that I am not recovering fast enough to get in all the exercise that I want to. Monday and Tuesday are my balls to the walls workout hard days...but that makes me too sore on Friday to do my depletion workout. Likewise, the DOMS is too severe to get any cardio done on the recovery days.
I want to leave that thread alone for now, and explore the idea of going on a 9 day cycle...that may give me enough rest between workouts...but it will wreak havoc on my social life (I was getting used to carbs on Saturday)...
Here is my idea for a 9 day cycle:
Day 1: First day after carbup...could be sore from depletion workout...mild cardio if possible.
Day 2: Push Routine (squats, benchpress, shoulder press, dips)
Day 3: Recovery Day
Day 4: Pull Routine (deadlifts, chinups, pullups, rows)
Day 5: recovery day
Day 6: recovery day
Day 7: cardio...twice (once during lunch, once after dinner)
Day 8: Full-body Depletion Workout (carb-up begins)
Day 9: Carb-Up full day
My other idea is to do a freestyle CKD where I do the depletion workout whenever I am recovered from the previous workout instead of sticking to a specific schedule. It could take 8 days to complete...or even 10. It all depends on how hard I hit the weights on my primary two workout days.
I definately don't want to go on a 2 week cycle. I feel that this is too long for me to go without the carb-up. I can get in 1 solid day of cardio...possibly another one depending on my DOMS. I also have the option of working out 2 days in a row like I did this week. Instead of having day 3 be a recovery day...it can be the pull routine day...
TKD is another option...but I don't want to go there yet. Any thoughts? This is interesting because I plan to experiment with diffferent periods of time between carbups. I've just down 2 weeks and it feels like too long. I think your plan looks great and I'll be interested to see what other more experienced folks recommend :)
OK, I feel better now.
I am sticking with the 7 day cycle for now. I think when I started this thread, I had worked out too hard or something.
I did the carb-up like normal on Friday/Saturday...and then, I got my ass in the gym Sunday afternoon. The Friday depletion workout did not leave me with any DOMS...so I felt OK working out on Sunday.
So on Sunday, I did my pull routine (deadlifts, rows, chinups) and on Monday, I did my push routine (Squats, bench, shoulder press, dips)...and I have no DOMS.
I am not sure why my hamstrings are doing so well...when last week, they were in serious pain after my workouts. I have very little DOMS compared to last week...so I think everything will be OK now. No cardio today...but maybe some tomorrow and Thursday...
I like doing the first workout on Sunday instead of Monday. I feel that you get a little ahead of the curve if you can workout on Sunday, then again on Monday...or you can wait until Tuesday...and get an extra day of rest.
Right now, it's Tuesday, and I don't have to workout again until Friday. I have room for cardio as well.
I think I just needed to get used to this schedule. In another 3 weeks, I will re-evaluate the possibilty of going on an 8 or 9 day cycle...it depends on my gains and losses during that time.
I'm doing my carb ups on an as needed basis. Bascially, what I am attempting, is when I am too fatigured in a muscle group during my normal routine, I will start depletion on the rest and then carb up.
I just started so we'll see how it goes, but I figure it will work well for me.
Dan Duchaine's original "Ultimate diet" was a 10 day cycle- the 7 day was out of convience for people's love affair with the weekend.
There's no reason not to try that...carb ups aren't necessary every week if you don't need them. I have only done one in 5 1/2 weeks so far, and my next one is coming up this Saturday. I haven't noticed a difference, I mean my strength doesn't decrease with every week I don't carb up. And actually I've been feeling slim and just fine in my workouts.
This is my 3rd week without carbs, I am going to do a carb up on sat. I feel pretty good and havent lost anything in the gym even have encountered some gains. I feel depending on what your goals are to limit the carb up,but my main goal is fat loss though.
I usually workout pretty hard...when I do.
I know that 14 days is too long for me...as the first time I did it...my workouts were full of non-motivation. It was difficult to say the least.
But with 7 days, I am not even sure that I get a day or so of keto before the carb-up...so I will re-ask this question...
Is ketosis really important...or is fat-adapted the key? Do I actually have to start producing ketones? If I am fat adapted, but eat just enough carbs to prevent ketosis...will my body still prefer to burn fat if over 60% of my Cal comes from fat?
I may junk the CKD for a TKD. This way...there is no "schedule" and I kinda have freedom to an extent. I workout whenever I feel like it...and I eat carbs before/after.
On a TKD though...is there a long term special day? I mean...on a TKD...should you carb up once a month...or so?
I usually workout pretty hard...when I do.
I know that 14 days is too long for me...as the first time I did it...my workouts were full of non-motivation. It was difficult to say the least.
But with 7 days, I am not even sure that I get a day or so of keto before the carb-up...so I will re-ask this question...
Is ketosis really important...or is fat-adapted the key? Do I actually have to start producing ketones? If I am fat adapted, but eat just enough carbs to prevent ketosis...will my body still prefer to burn fat if over 60% of my Cal comes from fat?
I may junk the CKD for a TKD. This way...there is no "schedule" and I kinda have freedom to an extent. I workout whenever I feel like it...and I eat carbs before/after.
On a TKD though...is there a long term special day? I mean...on a TKD...should you carb up once a month...or so?
Well, being fat-adapted sort of depends on ketosis by definition. 'Fat Adapted' means: fully expressing genes that code for ketone production in order to supply the body with an excess of ketones to ensure that the brain and body have a constant source of energy.
That will only happen if your glycogen is depleted for more than a few days, and it's the reason you feel like crap at first. You aren't actually producing enough ketones to have a surplus because you've just started expressing the genes in the first couple days without carbs. But once they're fully expressed, you're making a bunch of ketones to run on along with glucose from gluconeogenesis. So, you won't become 'fat-adapted' unless you give your body enough time to fully express those genes, and preventing ketosis might just leave you feeling like crap all the time.
Well, being fat-adapted sort of depends on ketosis by definition. 'Fat Adapted' means: fully expressing genes that code for ketone production in order to supply the body with an excess of ketones to ensure that the brain and body have a constant source of energy. I guess the brain MUST have either glycogen or ketones.
In speaking with Teacher77 some time ago...he demonstrated to me that the body does not convert all fat to ketones for use. Free Floating Fatty acids can be used directly by the body for fuel. This implied to me that simply being fat adapted would burn the FFA for fuel...but then we still have to feed the brain...and that is where the ketones come into play.
It just seems to me that a 7 day cycle is too short. By the time you deplete liver glycogen...it can be Wednesday or later...and then...BAM...Friday comes along, and you carb-up. I was hoping that the body would convert to burning fat by Monday...and still have its glycogen stores...then by Wednesday...produce ketones...and then on Friday...re-feed.
It seemed like the body (although not in ketosis) would start to burn fat as early as Sunday...and by the time liver glycogen was completely emptied...ketosis would begin, and the brain would get the fuel it needs.
You should be able to get into ketosis well before wednesday. When cutting, I am typically in monday night or early tuesday morning.
Are you sure that you are not taking in too many carbs or fructose?
Are you sure that you are not taking in too many carbs or fructose? I am sure about the fructose...
But I have to go back and look at my peanut-butter consumption...those are the only hidden carbs that could be slowing down my progress.
But even still...throughout the day...I sometimes get less than 5g of carb at a meal...which is my average amount. By the night...I usually have 10g to spare...and I never concern myself too much about the peanut butter.
I may have to re-examine...
I started this thread about not having time to fit in cardio...
It got me thinking about possibly changing to a 9 or 10 day cycle instead of a standard 7 day cycle...and I felt that deserved its own thread...
The basic point of that thread is that I am not recovering fast enough to get in all the exercise that I want to. Monday and Tuesday are my balls to the walls workout hard days...but that makes me too sore on Friday to do my depletion workout. Likewise, the DOMS is too severe to get any cardio done on the recovery days.
I want to leave that thread alone for now, and explore the idea of going on a 9 day cycle...that may give me enough rest between workouts...but it will wreak havoc on my social life (I was getting used to carbs on Saturday)...
Here is my idea for a 9 day cycle:
Day 1: First day after carbup...could be sore from depletion workout...mild cardio if possible.
Day 2: Push Routine (squats, benchpress, shoulder press, dips)
Day 3: Recovery Day
Day 4: Pull Routine (deadlifts, chinups, pullups, rows)
Day 5: recovery day
Day 6: recovery day
Day 7: cardio...twice (once during lunch, once after dinner)
Day 8: Full-body Depletion Workout (carb-up begins)
Day 9: Carb-Up full day
My other idea is to do a freestyle CKD where I do the depletion workout whenever I am recovered from the previous workout instead of sticking to a specific schedule. It could take 8 days to complete...or even 10. It all depends on how hard I hit the weights on my primary two workout days.
I definately don't want to go on a 2 week cycle. I feel that this is too long for me to go without the carb-up. I can get in 1 solid day of cardio...possibly another one depending on my DOMS. I also have the option of working out 2 days in a row like I did this week. Instead of having day 3 be a recovery day...it can be the pull routine day...
TKD is another option...but I don't want to go there yet. Any thoughts?
Answer:
I started this thread about not having time to fit in cardio...
It got me thinking about possibly changing to a 9 or 10 day cycle instead of a standard 7 day cycle...and I felt that deserved its own thread...
The basic point of that thread is that I am not recovering fast enough to get in all the exercise that I want to. Monday and Tuesday are my balls to the walls workout hard days...but that makes me too sore on Friday to do my depletion workout. Likewise, the DOMS is too severe to get any cardio done on the recovery days.
I want to leave that thread alone for now, and explore the idea of going on a 9 day cycle...that may give me enough rest between workouts...but it will wreak havoc on my social life (I was getting used to carbs on Saturday)...
Here is my idea for a 9 day cycle:
Day 1: First day after carbup...could be sore from depletion workout...mild cardio if possible.
Day 2: Push Routine (squats, benchpress, shoulder press, dips)
Day 3: Recovery Day
Day 4: Pull Routine (deadlifts, chinups, pullups, rows)
Day 5: recovery day
Day 6: recovery day
Day 7: cardio...twice (once during lunch, once after dinner)
Day 8: Full-body Depletion Workout (carb-up begins)
Day 9: Carb-Up full day
My other idea is to do a freestyle CKD where I do the depletion workout whenever I am recovered from the previous workout instead of sticking to a specific schedule. It could take 8 days to complete...or even 10. It all depends on how hard I hit the weights on my primary two workout days.
I definately don't want to go on a 2 week cycle. I feel that this is too long for me to go without the carb-up. I can get in 1 solid day of cardio...possibly another one depending on my DOMS. I also have the option of working out 2 days in a row like I did this week. Instead of having day 3 be a recovery day...it can be the pull routine day...
TKD is another option...but I don't want to go there yet. Any thoughts? This is interesting because I plan to experiment with diffferent periods of time between carbups. I've just down 2 weeks and it feels like too long. I think your plan looks great and I'll be interested to see what other more experienced folks recommend :)
Answer:
OK, I feel better now.
I am sticking with the 7 day cycle for now. I think when I started this thread, I had worked out too hard or something.
I did the carb-up like normal on Friday/Saturday...and then, I got my ass in the gym Sunday afternoon. The Friday depletion workout did not leave me with any DOMS...so I felt OK working out on Sunday.
So on Sunday, I did my pull routine (deadlifts, rows, chinups) and on Monday, I did my push routine (Squats, bench, shoulder press, dips)...and I have no DOMS.
I am not sure why my hamstrings are doing so well...when last week, they were in serious pain after my workouts. I have very little DOMS compared to last week...so I think everything will be OK now. No cardio today...but maybe some tomorrow and Thursday...
I like doing the first workout on Sunday instead of Monday. I feel that you get a little ahead of the curve if you can workout on Sunday, then again on Monday...or you can wait until Tuesday...and get an extra day of rest.
Right now, it's Tuesday, and I don't have to workout again until Friday. I have room for cardio as well.
I think I just needed to get used to this schedule. In another 3 weeks, I will re-evaluate the possibilty of going on an 8 or 9 day cycle...it depends on my gains and losses during that time.
Answer:
I'm doing my carb ups on an as needed basis. Bascially, what I am attempting, is when I am too fatigured in a muscle group during my normal routine, I will start depletion on the rest and then carb up.
I just started so we'll see how it goes, but I figure it will work well for me.
Answer:
Dan Duchaine's original "Ultimate diet" was a 10 day cycle- the 7 day was out of convience for people's love affair with the weekend.
Answer:
There's no reason not to try that...carb ups aren't necessary every week if you don't need them. I have only done one in 5 1/2 weeks so far, and my next one is coming up this Saturday. I haven't noticed a difference, I mean my strength doesn't decrease with every week I don't carb up. And actually I've been feeling slim and just fine in my workouts.
Answer:
This is my 3rd week without carbs, I am going to do a carb up on sat. I feel pretty good and havent lost anything in the gym even have encountered some gains. I feel depending on what your goals are to limit the carb up,but my main goal is fat loss though.
Answer:
I usually workout pretty hard...when I do.
I know that 14 days is too long for me...as the first time I did it...my workouts were full of non-motivation. It was difficult to say the least.
But with 7 days, I am not even sure that I get a day or so of keto before the carb-up...so I will re-ask this question...
Is ketosis really important...or is fat-adapted the key? Do I actually have to start producing ketones? If I am fat adapted, but eat just enough carbs to prevent ketosis...will my body still prefer to burn fat if over 60% of my Cal comes from fat?
I may junk the CKD for a TKD. This way...there is no "schedule" and I kinda have freedom to an extent. I workout whenever I feel like it...and I eat carbs before/after.
On a TKD though...is there a long term special day? I mean...on a TKD...should you carb up once a month...or so?
Answer:
I usually workout pretty hard...when I do.
I know that 14 days is too long for me...as the first time I did it...my workouts were full of non-motivation. It was difficult to say the least.
But with 7 days, I am not even sure that I get a day or so of keto before the carb-up...so I will re-ask this question...
Is ketosis really important...or is fat-adapted the key? Do I actually have to start producing ketones? If I am fat adapted, but eat just enough carbs to prevent ketosis...will my body still prefer to burn fat if over 60% of my Cal comes from fat?
I may junk the CKD for a TKD. This way...there is no "schedule" and I kinda have freedom to an extent. I workout whenever I feel like it...and I eat carbs before/after.
On a TKD though...is there a long term special day? I mean...on a TKD...should you carb up once a month...or so?
Well, being fat-adapted sort of depends on ketosis by definition. 'Fat Adapted' means: fully expressing genes that code for ketone production in order to supply the body with an excess of ketones to ensure that the brain and body have a constant source of energy.
That will only happen if your glycogen is depleted for more than a few days, and it's the reason you feel like crap at first. You aren't actually producing enough ketones to have a surplus because you've just started expressing the genes in the first couple days without carbs. But once they're fully expressed, you're making a bunch of ketones to run on along with glucose from gluconeogenesis. So, you won't become 'fat-adapted' unless you give your body enough time to fully express those genes, and preventing ketosis might just leave you feeling like crap all the time.
Answer:
Well, being fat-adapted sort of depends on ketosis by definition. 'Fat Adapted' means: fully expressing genes that code for ketone production in order to supply the body with an excess of ketones to ensure that the brain and body have a constant source of energy. I guess the brain MUST have either glycogen or ketones.
In speaking with Teacher77 some time ago...he demonstrated to me that the body does not convert all fat to ketones for use. Free Floating Fatty acids can be used directly by the body for fuel. This implied to me that simply being fat adapted would burn the FFA for fuel...but then we still have to feed the brain...and that is where the ketones come into play.
It just seems to me that a 7 day cycle is too short. By the time you deplete liver glycogen...it can be Wednesday or later...and then...BAM...Friday comes along, and you carb-up. I was hoping that the body would convert to burning fat by Monday...and still have its glycogen stores...then by Wednesday...produce ketones...and then on Friday...re-feed.
It seemed like the body (although not in ketosis) would start to burn fat as early as Sunday...and by the time liver glycogen was completely emptied...ketosis would begin, and the brain would get the fuel it needs.
Answer:
You should be able to get into ketosis well before wednesday. When cutting, I am typically in monday night or early tuesday morning.
Are you sure that you are not taking in too many carbs or fructose?
Answer:
Are you sure that you are not taking in too many carbs or fructose? I am sure about the fructose...
But I have to go back and look at my peanut-butter consumption...those are the only hidden carbs that could be slowing down my progress.
But even still...throughout the day...I sometimes get less than 5g of carb at a meal...which is my average amount. By the night...I usually have 10g to spare...and I never concern myself too much about the peanut butter.
I may have to re-examine...