Steroids, Androgen Estrogen, Growth Height, I Have A Friend...
Steroids, Androgen Estrogen, Growth Height, I Have A Friend...
I have a friend who is 17 and contemplating gear usage as he is unsatisfied with his height...
He's 5,11 i believe, but still unhappy, looking to be about 6 ft plus tall.
He's quite poor, but has gottogether some money and wants to use hormonal manipulation to increase his height potensial.
He took some gear a year ago i am told, some Dbol! and some test! However has continued to grow, about an inch since that time, 2.5 cm per year, he's not sure if this was due to f*ing up his endocrine system or if the slow growth rate was due to growth plate maturation.
However, he wants to capitalise on what he has left.
Here's the plan he has:
Anavar 20-40mg ED 6 months-1 year+
Letrozole 2.5mg ED 6 months-1 year+
HGH 20 I.U EOD 6 months-1 year+
Test?
DHT?
HCG?
The letro stops androgens aromatising into estrogens, but are high levels of androgens going to be beneficial, or should he stick with the var, letro and hgh?
Anyone want to chip in on the idea or theorey?
you sure know alot about your "friend".
you sure know alot about your "friend". Well i figured it's best to get as much infromation as possible, so that i can help him, i wouldn't want to advise him wrong on this issue.
He seems to know what he is talking about, quoting studies here and there, how oxandrolone(var) and hgh are used in combination to enhance height, but as he is 17 and had previously experimented with roids(the most aromtasable of the lot, because he was an idiot), i wasn't sure if it was a good idea, he's told me that he wasn't sure it would work, but wanted to know the best way to enhance his height safely.
So here i came, will anyone answer the call?
"Anavar 20-40mg ED 6 months-1 year+" newwwww liver! lol..just dont ok..GH will not help him get any taller not to talk about the fact that he (or you..) are 17 and should not use gear..even at 21 i think GH is a waste..and 5'11 is a geat height..just my opinion
What on earth is going on here? The recommend dosage of HGH is only 2-6IU per day. I sincerely hope that is a typo.
"Anavar 20-40mg ED 6 months-1 year+" newwwww liver! lol..just dont ok..GH will not help him get any taller not to talk about the fact that he (or you..) are 17 and should not use gear..even at 21 i think GH is a waste..and 5'11 is a geat height..just my opinion That's how long var is used to treat short children...
Sometimes 1-2 years... or longer i think, liver is not the issue,although i'll recommend he keeps an eye on his bloodwork and have him take liver supporting supplements.
What's your rationale in saying that GH will not enhance his height, do you know of any other risk in attempting to find out?
Just looking at it from a monetary point of view your friend will be broke before he finishes his course of HGH at 20IU every other day.
He is 17, if your a friend then your advice would stop at not running gear and then let him make his own choice.
What on earth is going on here? The recommend dosage of HGH is only 2-6IU per day. I sincerely hope that is a typo.
In short children GH is used at really high doses,something like 0.6iu per kg x3 per week or even x 6 per week.
We're talking height enhcancement doses...
I'm thinking about safety concerns and ways to make this more effective for him, anyone got some?
He is 17, if your a friend then your advice would stop at not running gear and then let him make his own choice. That was my advise till he came out with all this clinical data, i wanted to analyse what he was saying, because if i couldn't do that who i am to tell him, what's right or wrong?
I'm curious about what he is doing, also concerned, so just being responsible about it and not outright being a hypocrit and saying gear is bad.
His choice seems made, i'll only advise aginast doing it, if i see an bovious safety concern or flaw in what he is doing, why am i looking into it...
Just looking at it from a monetary point of view your friend will be broke before he finishes his course of HGH at 20IU every other day. He's got money for himself, been working on this and saving for about a year, apparently already has a fair bit of jintropin...
That was my advise till he came out with all this clinical data, i wanted to analyse what he was saying, because if i couldn't do that who i am to tell him, what's right or wrong?
I'm curious about what he is doing, also concerned, so just being responsible about it and not outright being a hypocrit and saying gear is bad.
His choice seems made, i'll only advise aginast doing it, if i see an bovious safety concern or flaw in what he is doing, why am i looking into it... Can you post links to the clinical studies he is mentioning? Personally I think he is going to do this no matter what you say so I don't know why your wasting your time.
There are hundreds of posts on various boards outlinging the dangers and sides of running gear at that sort of age and I have never read one positive on the topic.
Can you post links to the clinical studies he is mentioning? Personally I think he is going to do this no matter what you say so I don't know why your wasting your time.
There are hundreds of posts on various boards outlinging the dangers and sides of running gear at that sort of age and I have never read one positive on the topic. Specifically?
I've only done some research, enough to know a fair bit about how the drugs are used, what doses, times, safety, what would you like to know?
I think due to the fact he's late in his purberty stage, there's not much he can loose and could stand to gain alot, it would not really be a first.
Loads of kids parents are throwing their normal kids on growth enhancing drugs, simply for the vanity of it, the drugs are proven effective, but something still seems wrong about it...
Talks about oxandrolone and gh being more effective than gh alone somewhere in this article:
http://www.bentham.org/cpb/sample/cpb1-1/Lanes.pdf
Alot of data in there
I've actually pciked up a fair bit of encrinological knowledge, from this kid,but it's all pretty specific, it's mostly reading studies, obsorbing the peice of infromation the study proves, then combining all the facts into a working model.
I lol'd at letro 2.5 mg for a year. I give him a month at the very most, before he throws in the towel. Research, you tools.
Again a study was conducted on the ability of letor to prevent bone maturation, i'll find it, but it enhaced growth in 6 month study.
17 months actually...
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ull/115/2/e245
in that weird way (of giving aas + gh to a 17yr old) you did allot of research and i respect that and i wish i could help you but if you do choose to do it i really would go with just gh although it does seems pointless at his height..good luck with whatever you choose to do :)
if ur "friend" is quite poor how is he planning to pay for 20 I/U YES TWENTY UNITS OF HUMAN GROWTH HORMONE EOD for 6 months to a year plus ?
that would cost him a fortune, not to mention after that var cycle it'll cost him his liver too
I wish I was 5'11, shit I wouldn't even complain
Again a study was conducted on the ability of letor to prevent bone maturation, i'll find it, but it enhaced growth in 6 month study. I dont care what studies you throw at me, i just know that you or your friend will NOT be able to stay on a such high dose of letro for such a long time. You WILL be dying after about a month or two, with no energy, sex drive, and wont feel like getting out of bed in the morning. Stay on it for longer, and your immune system and joints will go to hell. Its a really harsh compound, and not really surprising that patients prescribed it for longer periods are usually hospitalized.
in that weird way (of giving aas + gh to a 17yr old) you did allot of research and i respect that and i wish i could help you but if you do choose to do it i really would go with just gh although it does seems pointless at his height..good luck with whatever you choose to do :) I'll pass the message along, guess on the surface it appears he knows what he's doing, i'm sure there are risks, but they seem pretty much in line with the risks of treatment of children with short stature, not sure if he decided to add Test DHT and HCG however?
GH alone might be a safe bet, but what he's doing is a calculated risk, it's all pretty complicated, hope he doesn't mess himself up and it works for him...
I'll advise him to domore research on the other gears he is proposing to use...
Thanks
I dont care what studies you throw at me, i just know that you or your friend will NOT be able to stay on a such high dose of letro for such a long time. You WILL be dying after about a month or two, with no energy, sex drive, and wont feel like getting out of bed in the morning. Stay on it for longer, and your immune system and joints will go to hell. Its a really harsh compound, and not really surprising that patients prescribed it for longer periods are usually hospitalized. Can you back that up with something anecdotal or clinical?
I told him about the loss of sex drive, and he came back with Cialis and DHT as a solution, also the test and hcg are supposedly part of that.
However, the immune system and joints, estrogen is need for joints right?
Isn't HGh good for joints, even specifically cuasing water retension in the joints?
Starting to sound more risky for him, can you back soem of this stuff up, i's what he is going to want...
if ur "friend" is quite poor how is he planning to pay for 20 I/U YES TWENTY UNITS OF HUMAN GROWTH HORMONE EOD for 6 months to a year plus ?
that would cost him a fortune, not to mention after that var cycle it'll cost him his liver too
I wish I was 5'11, shit I wouldn't even complain Liver problems aren't an issue with var from what i have read, i'll pull a study out if needed, but it's used widely for long periods of time.
As for the cost, he told me how he doesn't buy new trainers and clothes,so he can buy whey and food and has been saving for a grwoth enhancement cycle, plus he has had a part time job for some time, but he has sacraficed and will sacrafice alot for this...
Can you back that up with something anecdotal or clinical?
I told him about the loss of sex drive, and he came back with Cialis and DHT as a solution, also the test and hcg are supposedly part of that.
However, the immune system and joints, estrogen is need for joints right?
Isn't HGh good for joints, even specifically cuasing water retension in the joints?
Starting to sound more risky for him, can you back soem of this stuff up, i's what he is going to want... Myself using letro for contest prep. At the said dose (2.5 mg/day), i couldnt last more than about one and a half months.
Cialis and DHT are not a solution, if you have zero estrogen in your system (and you will at that dose). Sure cialis will give him an erection, but what use is it when he will have zero sex drive?
Hgh will ease the joint issue somewhat, but not enough. I was on 8 iu hgh ED when taking letro, and it was not enough.
I could deal with the above issues, but one i could NOT deal with was the chronic fatigue and lack of energy, and believe me, its EXTREME.
Also one issue id like to point out, with letro and anavar for such long periods, he is bound to have single digit HDL for several months. Ill let you think about the dangers of that.
Cheers bro, good information, i'll pass it on, i really don't think i'm going to talk him out of this, if the sides get to great for him though, i'd imagine he'll stop then.
I didn't think it was as clean as he made it out to be, the drugs have sides, just because in some of these studies they don't get mentioned, or may not have occured, doesn't mean that there wont be any...
Take it easy and thanks.
has your friend discussed his idea with an endo yet or is this based on just his research. I would tell him to put the idea forward to a doctor and discuss the idea with him/her. With all the possible side effects and money he would be spending and these medications may not even work. Has he had a scan to see if his bones and closed yet? Because if they are then nothing will work.
I have a friend who is 17 and contemplating gear usage as he is unsatisfied with his height...
He's 5,11 i believe, but still unhappy, looking to be about 6 ft plus tall.
He's quite poor, but has gottogether some money and wants to use hormonal manipulation to increase his height potensial.
He took some gear a year ago i am told, some Dbol! and some test! However has continued to grow, about an inch since that time, 2.5 cm per year, he's not sure if this was due to f*ing up his endocrine system or if the slow growth rate was due to growth plate maturation.
However, he wants to capitalise on what he has left.
Here's the plan he has:
Anavar 20-40mg ED 6 months-1 year+
Letrozole 2.5mg ED 6 months-1 year+
HGH 20 I.U EOD 6 months-1 year+
Test?
DHT?
HCG?
The letro stops androgens aromatising into estrogens, but are high levels of androgens going to be beneficial, or should he stick with the var, letro and hgh?
Anyone want to chip in on the idea or theorey?
Answer:
you sure know alot about your "friend".
Answer:
you sure know alot about your "friend". Well i figured it's best to get as much infromation as possible, so that i can help him, i wouldn't want to advise him wrong on this issue.
He seems to know what he is talking about, quoting studies here and there, how oxandrolone(var) and hgh are used in combination to enhance height, but as he is 17 and had previously experimented with roids(the most aromtasable of the lot, because he was an idiot), i wasn't sure if it was a good idea, he's told me that he wasn't sure it would work, but wanted to know the best way to enhance his height safely.
So here i came, will anyone answer the call?
Answer:
"Anavar 20-40mg ED 6 months-1 year+" newwwww liver! lol..just dont ok..GH will not help him get any taller not to talk about the fact that he (or you..) are 17 and should not use gear..even at 21 i think GH is a waste..and 5'11 is a geat height..just my opinion
Answer:
What on earth is going on here? The recommend dosage of HGH is only 2-6IU per day. I sincerely hope that is a typo.
Answer:
"Anavar 20-40mg ED 6 months-1 year+" newwwww liver! lol..just dont ok..GH will not help him get any taller not to talk about the fact that he (or you..) are 17 and should not use gear..even at 21 i think GH is a waste..and 5'11 is a geat height..just my opinion That's how long var is used to treat short children...
Sometimes 1-2 years... or longer i think, liver is not the issue,although i'll recommend he keeps an eye on his bloodwork and have him take liver supporting supplements.
What's your rationale in saying that GH will not enhance his height, do you know of any other risk in attempting to find out?
Answer:
Just looking at it from a monetary point of view your friend will be broke before he finishes his course of HGH at 20IU every other day.
Answer:
He is 17, if your a friend then your advice would stop at not running gear and then let him make his own choice.
Answer:
What on earth is going on here? The recommend dosage of HGH is only 2-6IU per day. I sincerely hope that is a typo.
In short children GH is used at really high doses,something like 0.6iu per kg x3 per week or even x 6 per week.
We're talking height enhcancement doses...
I'm thinking about safety concerns and ways to make this more effective for him, anyone got some?
Answer:
He is 17, if your a friend then your advice would stop at not running gear and then let him make his own choice. That was my advise till he came out with all this clinical data, i wanted to analyse what he was saying, because if i couldn't do that who i am to tell him, what's right or wrong?
I'm curious about what he is doing, also concerned, so just being responsible about it and not outright being a hypocrit and saying gear is bad.
His choice seems made, i'll only advise aginast doing it, if i see an bovious safety concern or flaw in what he is doing, why am i looking into it...
Answer:
Just looking at it from a monetary point of view your friend will be broke before he finishes his course of HGH at 20IU every other day. He's got money for himself, been working on this and saving for about a year, apparently already has a fair bit of jintropin...
Answer:
That was my advise till he came out with all this clinical data, i wanted to analyse what he was saying, because if i couldn't do that who i am to tell him, what's right or wrong?
I'm curious about what he is doing, also concerned, so just being responsible about it and not outright being a hypocrit and saying gear is bad.
His choice seems made, i'll only advise aginast doing it, if i see an bovious safety concern or flaw in what he is doing, why am i looking into it... Can you post links to the clinical studies he is mentioning? Personally I think he is going to do this no matter what you say so I don't know why your wasting your time.
There are hundreds of posts on various boards outlinging the dangers and sides of running gear at that sort of age and I have never read one positive on the topic.
Answer:
Can you post links to the clinical studies he is mentioning? Personally I think he is going to do this no matter what you say so I don't know why your wasting your time.
There are hundreds of posts on various boards outlinging the dangers and sides of running gear at that sort of age and I have never read one positive on the topic. Specifically?
I've only done some research, enough to know a fair bit about how the drugs are used, what doses, times, safety, what would you like to know?
I think due to the fact he's late in his purberty stage, there's not much he can loose and could stand to gain alot, it would not really be a first.
Loads of kids parents are throwing their normal kids on growth enhancing drugs, simply for the vanity of it, the drugs are proven effective, but something still seems wrong about it...
Answer:
Talks about oxandrolone and gh being more effective than gh alone somewhere in this article:
http://www.bentham.org/cpb/sample/cpb1-1/Lanes.pdf
Alot of data in there
Answer:
I've actually pciked up a fair bit of encrinological knowledge, from this kid,but it's all pretty specific, it's mostly reading studies, obsorbing the peice of infromation the study proves, then combining all the facts into a working model.
Answer:
I lol'd at letro 2.5 mg for a year. I give him a month at the very most, before he throws in the towel. Research, you tools.
Answer:
Again a study was conducted on the ability of letor to prevent bone maturation, i'll find it, but it enhaced growth in 6 month study.
Answer:
17 months actually...
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ull/115/2/e245
Answer:
in that weird way (of giving aas + gh to a 17yr old) you did allot of research and i respect that and i wish i could help you but if you do choose to do it i really would go with just gh although it does seems pointless at his height..good luck with whatever you choose to do :)
Answer:
if ur "friend" is quite poor how is he planning to pay for 20 I/U YES TWENTY UNITS OF HUMAN GROWTH HORMONE EOD for 6 months to a year plus ?
that would cost him a fortune, not to mention after that var cycle it'll cost him his liver too
I wish I was 5'11, shit I wouldn't even complain
Answer:
Again a study was conducted on the ability of letor to prevent bone maturation, i'll find it, but it enhaced growth in 6 month study. I dont care what studies you throw at me, i just know that you or your friend will NOT be able to stay on a such high dose of letro for such a long time. You WILL be dying after about a month or two, with no energy, sex drive, and wont feel like getting out of bed in the morning. Stay on it for longer, and your immune system and joints will go to hell. Its a really harsh compound, and not really surprising that patients prescribed it for longer periods are usually hospitalized.
Answer:
in that weird way (of giving aas + gh to a 17yr old) you did allot of research and i respect that and i wish i could help you but if you do choose to do it i really would go with just gh although it does seems pointless at his height..good luck with whatever you choose to do :) I'll pass the message along, guess on the surface it appears he knows what he's doing, i'm sure there are risks, but they seem pretty much in line with the risks of treatment of children with short stature, not sure if he decided to add Test DHT and HCG however?
GH alone might be a safe bet, but what he's doing is a calculated risk, it's all pretty complicated, hope he doesn't mess himself up and it works for him...
I'll advise him to domore research on the other gears he is proposing to use...
Thanks
Answer:
I dont care what studies you throw at me, i just know that you or your friend will NOT be able to stay on a such high dose of letro for such a long time. You WILL be dying after about a month or two, with no energy, sex drive, and wont feel like getting out of bed in the morning. Stay on it for longer, and your immune system and joints will go to hell. Its a really harsh compound, and not really surprising that patients prescribed it for longer periods are usually hospitalized. Can you back that up with something anecdotal or clinical?
I told him about the loss of sex drive, and he came back with Cialis and DHT as a solution, also the test and hcg are supposedly part of that.
However, the immune system and joints, estrogen is need for joints right?
Isn't HGh good for joints, even specifically cuasing water retension in the joints?
Starting to sound more risky for him, can you back soem of this stuff up, i's what he is going to want...
Answer:
if ur "friend" is quite poor how is he planning to pay for 20 I/U YES TWENTY UNITS OF HUMAN GROWTH HORMONE EOD for 6 months to a year plus ?
that would cost him a fortune, not to mention after that var cycle it'll cost him his liver too
I wish I was 5'11, shit I wouldn't even complain Liver problems aren't an issue with var from what i have read, i'll pull a study out if needed, but it's used widely for long periods of time.
As for the cost, he told me how he doesn't buy new trainers and clothes,so he can buy whey and food and has been saving for a grwoth enhancement cycle, plus he has had a part time job for some time, but he has sacraficed and will sacrafice alot for this...
Answer:
Can you back that up with something anecdotal or clinical?
I told him about the loss of sex drive, and he came back with Cialis and DHT as a solution, also the test and hcg are supposedly part of that.
However, the immune system and joints, estrogen is need for joints right?
Isn't HGh good for joints, even specifically cuasing water retension in the joints?
Starting to sound more risky for him, can you back soem of this stuff up, i's what he is going to want... Myself using letro for contest prep. At the said dose (2.5 mg/day), i couldnt last more than about one and a half months.
Cialis and DHT are not a solution, if you have zero estrogen in your system (and you will at that dose). Sure cialis will give him an erection, but what use is it when he will have zero sex drive?
Hgh will ease the joint issue somewhat, but not enough. I was on 8 iu hgh ED when taking letro, and it was not enough.
I could deal with the above issues, but one i could NOT deal with was the chronic fatigue and lack of energy, and believe me, its EXTREME.
Also one issue id like to point out, with letro and anavar for such long periods, he is bound to have single digit HDL for several months. Ill let you think about the dangers of that.
Answer:
Cheers bro, good information, i'll pass it on, i really don't think i'm going to talk him out of this, if the sides get to great for him though, i'd imagine he'll stop then.
I didn't think it was as clean as he made it out to be, the drugs have sides, just because in some of these studies they don't get mentioned, or may not have occured, doesn't mean that there wont be any...
Take it easy and thanks.
Answer:
has your friend discussed his idea with an endo yet or is this based on just his research. I would tell him to put the idea forward to a doctor and discuss the idea with him/her. With all the possible side effects and money he would be spending and these medications may not even work. Has he had a scan to see if his bones and closed yet? Because if they are then nothing will work.